Missing Link

could it be possible for man to have existed with dinosours it would then explain how armeggedan has been and gone for how many times can life be ended ?

For if this is so then we have found the missing link.

old testement was written during the time of prehistoric beast then it may be possible for all the peices to fit hence the noahs ark story the world ended then as well.

sceince belives the world ended (dinosours) via a metor and the bible says a great flood well no dout that these 2 things are both created with such a force of a metor

so help me out here what do think.

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First Of All, I'd like to welcome you Chaza to our Philosophical forum....and I Hope you will find it a friendly place to be.

Second Concerning your Question, If man and dinosaur's co exist and Whether armeggedan mentioned in Bible already happened or not.

Well , Based on scientific View, Dinosaurs went extinct, approximately, 65 million years ago. Homo sapiens (us) emerged roughly 220,000 years ago. So, there is a huge gap in between the end of the Cretaceous Period (when Dinosaurs disappeared) and the emergence of our species.

On the Other Hand , In Biblical View, As you add up all of the dates, and accepting that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to Earth almost 2000 years ago, we come to the conclusion that the creation of the Earth and animals (including the dinosaurs) occurred only thousands of years ago (perhaps only 6000!), not millions of years. Thus, if the Bible is right (and it is!), dinosaurs must have lived within the past thousands of years.

Evolutionists declare that no man ever lived alongside dinosaurs. The Bible, however, makes it plain that dinosaurs and people must have lived together. Actually, there is a lot of evidence for this.

One of them , God sent two of every (seven of some) land animal into the Ark (Genesis 7:2–3; 7:8–9)—there were no exceptions. Therefore, dinosaurs must have been on the Ark. The Flood of Noah’s day probably occurred just over 4,500 years ago. Creationists believe that this event formed many of the fossil layers around the Earth. (Additional fossil layers were formed by other floods as the Earth settled down after the great Flood.) Thus, the dinosaur fossils which were formed as a result of this Flood were probably formed about 4,500 years ago, not millions of years ago.

The real reason, however, why we do not know when Armageddon will take place is because it involves not just a war between nations but the return of Christ himself. We have seen this in the earlier extract from Revelation chapter 14. We have also seen that it is not just another Middle East war between Jews and Arabs: it is the Great and the Terrible Day of the Lord (Joel 2:31). It is indeed the same event as we read about in Ezekiel (chapter 38), Daniel (chapter 11), Zechariah (chapter 12-14) and elsewhere. A careful reading of those chapters and the contexts in which they occur make it quite clear that they refer to the event described in Revelation 16:14-16 as Armageddon, or, the time when the nations of the earth are gathered together for the battle of that great day of God Almighty. That being so, and as Christ and the saints are involved, it suggests that Armageddon must take place sometime after the return of Christ, after the resurrection and subsequent judgement of the baptized believers (or saints).

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You state in your post..."if the Bible was right (and it was!)

Can you please elaborate? Do you mean the Bible is more right than scientific views with regard to creation vs. evolution...or just right in general? What do you base that claim on? I don't mean any disrespect. I'm new here and trying to get the lay of the land:)

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First I 'd like to welcome you on our Forum and I hope we could share our thoughts and beliefs and feelings ....!.
I love People like you who questioning things for knoweldging and learning new things and not just for wasting time or debating with no goal behind !....so Go ahead Feather !

Well yes the Bible is more right than scientific views not only with regard to creation vs. evolution......but it's the absolute Righteousness in everything !.
About what do I base that claim on ....In Summary because it's God's Word. Actually This can lead us to long long discussions which may never end But on the other Hand, we can start bit by bit through certain particular biblical topics...Well I recommend you to read certain topics like :

First :
http://perfection.niceboard.org/philosophical-debates-f12/the-concept-of-sin-t267.htm

Second:
http://perfection.niceboard.org/philosophical-debates-f12/is-bible-being-distorted-t256.htm

Third:
http://perfection.niceboard.org/philosophical-debates-f12/a-deep-study-on-acim-t232.htm

Fourth:
http://perfection.niceboard.org/philosophical-debates-f12/seth-is-against-christianity-t255.htm


and through them we can have discussions and I will be glad to answer your questions !
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Most amazing! you see dinosaurs as extinct... although popular media likes to get this point across.. what is their motivation for their point?

I see that in here you guys understand the Dinosaurs are Extinct...

A few examples that are not extinct Alligator... crocodile.. and a exert for you..

"Evolutionary
scientists had claimed that the fish called Coelacanth had evolved legs
and went on land some 70 million years ago and was thus non-existent
today. However, in 1938, it was found they were dead wrong. A Coelacanth was discovered alive and well in the South African Coast by fishermen.
It was recently discovered that if the fish is brought near the surface
of the water, it will soon die. If someone had gone there and seen the
Coelacanth, but not taken any photographs, the scientists would say
they were just false findings. Later, scientists found out that fishermen had been catching those fish for years!"

In 1896, a 12,000 pound octopus was found on the beach in Saint Augustine, Florida. It has been estimated to be over 200 feet in length!

Now back to me.. these are not beliefs... these are facts... the reality is... existence of dinosaurs is very much real. in the last 100 years 20,000 sighting's have been registered. Lets look into some "beliefs" maybe... Shamanistic people and natives.. who "western civilization purged" both their history and their belief.. and forced their views upon them they were rich.. in what we call "Lore and fables"i am not going to go into any perticular tribe but to say resemblences between their Written history and sightings by military officers..explores and tourists mirror some of their fables or what we have declared fable.....(I am Canadian of English decent, 2000+ years ago Nordic in this blood lineage) ... what has for nearly 1000 years... is a move by western peoples to discredit.. and force our selves upon others who don't see the way we do.. and to say; this is the way.. or that..(dark ages) how far the greeks had come.. for some..orginzations to say it was all wrong...for us in the last 100 years to say yes yes you were right. Well.. if we can leave out our beliefs and approach this as our individual self and not a party or religious structured psyche... we can see what is on earth today. are we here for religion? politics? or are we here to be open to all that is and honor each other so that the philosopher in each of us may stand and shine and not half to tailor their pitch because someone is so bold as to say this is the way.. which it self is a fable...is a fairy tail.


so to summarize.. if you want to belief they don't exist.. i love and honor you :) your freedom to choose. If you want to believe they do exist i love and honor you :) your freedom to choose.
Though dinosaurs do exist.. and you don't half to believe it! it is factual... extinctions occur it appears to be a naturaly occuring trend... their seems to be alot of extinction lately.. i guess in the future their will be a debate... about the extinctions in this century alone.. if this is myth and legend..

Well Anthony , First welcome on board.

I agree there are still some creatures having same features of dinasours and I admit there are discoveries going on as long as we live...But what we were mentioning concerning "Dinosaurs went extinct" , we meant Dinasours in general comparing their existance long time ago to the few and rarely ones which are discovered nowadays !!.

we were discussing if they co exist with humans or not...that's what we were discussing

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Well i am saying we are currently co-existing with dinosaurs hence the link.. and the refrence to alligators... and croc's.. their are many many more "dinosaurs" we live with these are just a couple hand picked that i thought you guys may have known.

here is something else which may open some eyes...

A brief history on the american indians/tribes "American" - North and South America's not peoples of the United States ((of)) America.

enjoy http://www.flyingdragons.livingdinos.com/thunderbirds.html

what i was saying wasn't a combative question.. but a philosphical point. that for power... of... different organizations it is important to educate people dinosaurs do not exist.. they have their reasons which to me are obvious.. but i am not here to help people evolve not today.. well not so abrubtly.

remeber our very discussion only half a century ago.. would of been outlawed...or looked down upon...a hundred maybe two hundred years ago.. we would be killed as heritic's...

to the victory goes the history...

those in power will do what it takes to stay in power...

I find it is important to read and see things.. and let them be things...
in the end i am human you are human... so what is the human doing that is not allowing you to grow.. but putting a ceiling on this most infintie of places.....

is a chair really a chair?... or is it a limited infinite expression.

is a tree a tree? or is it a chair? :)

i guess everything is what you make of it... and to allow another to make it for you... you arn't infinite are you...

Love and light..

Hello everyone... This is my first post and I had to put my 2 cents in.

There is nothing in the fossil record to suggest that humans ever walked next to the dinosaurs. At least not the mammoth ones such as t-rex which did disapear tens of millions of years ago, as carbon dating has taught us. Not to say that the dinosaurs did'nt evolve into the smaller reptiles and pseudo-reptiles(such as birds), that we have today. It makes sense that over time, the dinosaurs population was too much of a strain on the ecology(not enough food), and that they had to evolve to a smaller animal. Who knows... One question I've always had about evolution is why do we not find either here nor in the fossil record, evidence of lifeforms that we evolved from. The cealocanth(sp?) comes from such a depth in the ocean that the environmental variables are the same today as they were millions of years ago, unlike our constantly changing land/air environment. I know that the ancient fish did'nt just all of a sudden grow a pair of leggs and hop his happy butt onto the land. It had to be a gradual process. So how could some evolve, while others stayed where they are at, and we find nothing in-between? If we evolved from monkeys then why are there no genetic abberations suggesting so? Chimpanzees have more chromosomes than we do. If a human is born with an extra chromosome pair, then they have down's syndrome.

No-one can know the answers to everything. Speculation and hypothesis is the only thing we have to go on. And you know what they say about opinions.

INDEED MAN EXISTED WITH THE PREHISTORIC REPTILES! For there is much evidence. Cave paintings, pots, etc. There is no doubt that dinosaurs still exist. The dinos were but overgrown lizards. The earth was extremely rich in oxygen, being very benificial in many ways. Considering that reptiles never stop growing until they die. Life was lived longer back in those days. Explaining huge reptiles, and people living to be 300 - 900 years old.....bone growth as well. Yet before considering a fossil to be true, study the qualifying questions before hand. Methods/procedures, areas, KINDS, peer reviews, etc. For there is a great history of hoaxs.

I personally became a believer of the bible once I had recognized that creation really did happen, and that we have been fed lies to discourage and distract us from the truth. No one preached to me, no not at all. It was stumbling across a man that was refuting atheistic naturalism. Never heard of that one before, yet interested me. Questions I had never heard before. "Science" being dusted off and displaying what it truly was.....a religion. For it wasnt science. It couldnt be tested, observed and repeated, they were but assumptions...THEORIES. NO PROOF. NO EVIDENCE. After discovering that there indeed IS an intelligent Designer, I began to study more on the bible, creation, and evolution.

I believe that THE TRUTH is there, but in these modern days, though science is wonderful, much of it has became a distraction to us. For science is awesome when you get to understand the why's, and how's of God's handiwork. Like why we dont bleed to death when we have a cut. Science gives the scientifical explination of what goes on in reality, and in physical areas. Though God intelligently made it exist. Science helps see the glory of God a little better and has much proof behind it, but once it begins to deny the Creator then it begins to fall apart. Mainly not having much proof, or any, or irrelevant evidence, making it NOT science. Like I said, science is something you can test, repeat, and observe. The THEORY of evolution, and the big bang THEORY, is NOT science. For there is NO logical proof nor evidence for it actually being true.

Now that doesnt mean we can easily determine what is true and what is false, what is science, and what is but an assumption/distraction. For there are many people who dont want to believe in some things, and wouldnt mind modifying the truth.

Though the whole creation vs. evolution has been a never ending dispute. To me this case has been dismissed. LOL at the belief that we are but apes, evolving from a single-cell organism billions of years ago. Though some will laugh at the fact of creation, but dont blame them. They only do so due to the lack of the truth being revealed to them...but itll come one way or another.

Wow, what a topic now where to start?

O.K. first up the concept of "missing link" stems from Darwin and his now almost certainly dis proven "tree of life" so from that perspective I think the probability of a "missing link" is so remote that it's a non issue.

every field of science is pointing to a creator. It is an injustice that macro evolution has been peddled as scientific "fact" in our education system for many years.

For a so called "missing link" to be even considered it has to be transitional, that is to display a move from one species into another such as shown by the fraudulent Haeckel drawings.

some will try to use examples of Archaeopterx which turned out to be a red herring (well actually a bird).

In fact of all the fields of science paleontology has been the most embarrassed frauds have abounded, we all will remember the 1999 edition of National Geo and how humiliated they were when their Archaeraptor turned out to be a fraud and it has forever tarnished their reputation.

Missing link...........there isn't one.

Anthony thank you for that and very well put you are a true scholar.
I really dont have any debate over this subject I think both sides have a some to offer here.
I have spend most of time researching alternitive versions of history.
Anthony I do think your pretty versed in this sortive information.
I have revealed to myself many things and I cant thank enough the many great speakers of truth in the world who help me learn to read the map so to speak.
I certainley through my experiance have come to understand to try and debate faith is pointless.
If you believe I cant change your mind in other words

Anthony makes many points wich I understand with I live about 30 minutes from st. augustine :)
so im well aware of the giant octopus and I saw telivision program on it here recently.
Yeah and you speak of the old ways im a mix of bloodlines tied to the old ways Irish,scandinavian,and cherokee(native american) I have real fondness for the study of the shamanic practices of all of my cultures now im a bit disconnected lets say from example druidisim or cherokee story telling or the norse edda teachings but also im trying to revive it in myself.
with that aside I have alot to add Please keep in mind my goal is not offend.
I do think from not just one source but many sources that the deluge did take place.
some of the oldest records of this I know of come from the bardic
traditions or whats barley left of them.
There is physical evidence to back this up land bridges that connect mainland europe to the brittish isles. There are many underwater markers like the one discoverd off the coast of japan.
lets not forget many names and stories used in the bible are pagan astrotheolgy even the story of jesus people argue is just retold pagan astrotheolgy.
The word church for crying out loud comes from scotia there word circe or heavenly cirlce or the garden of the godess and it was a circle or stars in the sky.
You see peoples culture have been overwritten as anthony pointed by the victors of war the druids and bard were massacred by the romans the imperialist ceaser had every calender in the west destroyed they came upon they were a bit jealous you see they kept time much better and could resolve the heavens on charts with far greater detail.
Egypt and even sumerian culture owe alot of thier culture to northern europeans mainly druids I mean there digging it up now you can see it for your own eyes slaves did not build the pyramids these people were guest in these lands they had wealth and medical treatment and were morr over were not from the region they were northern europeans.
so many things are faithfuly belived to be true doesnt mean they are.
they basicly disproved the big bang theory a few months ago.
I think Immanuel Velikovsky really peeked my intrest with the idea of many monuments being built commemerate the deluge like the pyramids and temples in I think sri lanka and in peru lining up with the sky around 10500 bc something happened I think the deluge....
theres so much cover in this regard I will keep this brief as I can but dinosuars or dragons have in my opinon and still co-exist with man or the adamic race of man us in other words.
They are still here and dragons were always being fought off in mytholgy but this I think often gets confused with serpents and serpents represent knowledge symbolicly in just about every culture and even the gnostic christians still teach it that way and not the serpent being lucifer(the star of morning)but positive force of understanding its not evil in other words.
so in conclusion I really think dragons are real were more populated before and slowly have been killed off. Of course this all just my understanding wich could and likley is wrong but its best i have got so far and to me its become a belief but not an unweilding one it does break if I am proven wrong or better put something that makes more sense to me comes along. it is not
well its not a religion yet anyway for me but its not much different and niether is science or history.
If you you read all that thanks if you fell asleep sorry if your raging upset at it well forgive me.
I do owe debt of gratitude to many teachers that have left or directly given me my knowledge and in many instances im only paroting there ways of putting it but I do question them without fear of having my understanding of the world completly overwritten becuase that sortive happens all the time now.
thanks great topic.

The Madman wrote:

Hello everyone... This is my first post and I had to put my 2 cents in.

There is nothing in the fossil record to suggest that humans ever walked next to the dinosaurs. At least not the mammoth ones such as t-rex which did disapear tens of millions of years ago, as carbon dating has taught us. Not to say that the dinosaurs did'nt evolve into the smaller reptiles and pseudo-reptiles(such as birds), that we have today. It makes sense that over time, the dinosaurs population was too much of a strain on the ecology(not enough food), and that they had to evolve to a smaller animal. Who knows... One question I've always had about evolution is why do we not find either here nor in the fossil record, evidence of lifeforms that we evolved from. The cealocanth(sp?) comes from such a depth in the ocean that the environmental variables are the same today as they were millions of years ago, unlike our constantly changing land/air environment. I know that the ancient fish did'nt just all of a sudden grow a pair of leggs and hop his happy butt onto the land. It had to be a gradual process. So how could some evolve, while others stayed where they are at, and we find nothing in-between? If we evolved from monkeys then why are there no genetic abberations suggesting so? Chimpanzees have more chromosomes than we do. If a human is born with an extra chromosome pair, then they have down's syndrome.

No-one can know the answers to everything. Speculation and hypothesis is the only thing we have to go on. And you know what they say about opinions.

You should check out john major jenkins someone who really studies this exact question hard as I think he he can he wrote the book starchild.

or my personal favorite explaination this lecture by michael tsarion yeah im pretty partial to this way of explaining things.


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How young is the earth?
I think carbon dating is proboly inaccurate im not a scientist so really I dont have enough information to say for sure.
I am under the impression though that civilization of humans is at least 10,000 years old.
You dont really need carbon dating to come that conclusion you just have to look at the astrotheolgy left behind in stone.
yes people have been keeping time for a long time astrology became astrotheolgy wich became mythology wich evolved into religion.
In fact the symbol of the crucifix is a pagan astrological symbol.
I wouldnt expect many people from a christian background to really understand what im talking about becuase it shoots holes cannon ball size right through it's current translation.
If that is your faith it is what it is theres no reason to care I suppose, and im not saying the bible is flat out wrong either just I read it a little different.
So what does that make me well in order to know anything you have to have an understanding you have to stand under the foundation to understand how its built.
astrotheology is the foundation of judaic theology.
It is still my personal opinion that man did not just evolve from chimps there is a creative force "god" if you will it doesnt matter to me the name but its always been known through wisdom not understanding and yes now days even the factual linear thinking science phd's are coming to same conclusion.
Oh and hands down the big bang was not the start of everything the bigbang is just the god figure of cosmology same thing as faith.
just check out this recent discovery
Black Holes Lead Galaxy Growth, New Research Shows
http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2009/bhbulge/

yeah his death happens every year because jesus is the sun.
I dont agree there not exactly the from the people known as germanic unless you want to call the aria or druids and serpent priest of egypt germanic.
Horus always has blue or green eyes.
If you dont understand why I pointed out the pagan cross being used is becuase not just among germanic tribes was it attached to this date dec 25 this video explains in detail.
keep in mind I have no problem with the bible or religion or anyones personal faith this is just mine. To me the bible is just another book of astrotheology.

all I can say is forgive me

some reason it wouldnt show in the last post.

sorry it works in preview but not after i post it.
here is a direct link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf-P_5u_Hw

Well alright hey your truth is your truth and mine is my own some are up for debate some are not.
Im not really intrested at all in debating this with you and dont take that the wrong way becuase from your point of view as faithful person or truthful however you see it thats quite alright with me im not any more valid than anyone else.
I certainley do apreciate your point of view as well.
For the record though I dont think jesus was myth.
In fact I tend to sway toward a more Ralph Ellis take on things.
I dont suggest this work for anyone who is not intrested in another point of view this is for all you outsiders out there.
what does this have to do with missing links and the advent of man not that much more than establishing a timeline between man and dinosaur so it is still relevant I think.
This is a great interview with author in audio format its really intresting I think.
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2008/04apr/RICR-080410.php

Seems people are still looking despite what good ole boys club over at occidental are saying.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmsfzYqFeqU

another intresting video from monster quest on well the giant birds hope you brought your umbrella.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTGhyLrFOAs
This show at the very least doesnt ever solve anything but what "tell you all about it" show does.
Least people are looking though.

Are you kidding?????monster quest. Just a helpful hint. I have recognized that there is A TON of stories, myths, imaginary creations, modifications, etc. in the world today. I also have realized that many have been deceived by lies that seem to be truth. Though I wouldnt seek my answers in areas regarding assumptions.

Im sorry kidding exactly about what? I dont understand the question.

far as truth goes they never claimed anything to be true or not its called study.
Although occidental did seem to write it all off based on carbon dateing,fossil records and general zooological science.
Of course its a wild goose chase if thats what you mean but lets not forget all the wild goose chases that turned into discoveries of unknown animals like these really cool deer.

Large-antlered muntjac (Muntiacus vuquangensis) photographed for the first time in the wild. (Credit: Copyright 2007 Nam Theun 2 Watershed Management and Protection Authority)

Only rumors and sightings by hunters before this photo was taken by camera traps.
heres a link to the article most people saw this on national geographic on telivision for the first time.

So really in last ten years we have discoverd alot of new animals no classic dinosaurs yet unless you count giant squid.

Most of the people discovering things like america were going on assumptions so I dont think I or anybody else in the feild of discovering would listen to your advice.

Well for anyone intrested here is a cool link to recently discoverd animals.
http://www.greenexpander.com/2007/10/15/20-new-species-from-the-lost-world/

Also I might add a devils advocate is always apreciated by me so thanks for the input.