I don't believe in the Bible

Jari wrote:

Narvré wrote:

Why would I acknowlage something I have no beliefe in? I don't think I'm a wrong dore, I think I'm a right dore, which just makes the bible seem like it wants me to feel bad about ever natural part of my form.

im not expecting you to believe the bible but when you read it you can either admit that yes i have done wrong and thats why feel bad - then you can admit that you need a saviour Jesus Christ.
He will take your guilt away, you cant do it your self.

then you can read bible with whole new understanding , after being forgiven and without guilt.

Wut?

I don't feel guilty for anything on my life. Why should I choose to believe that the one(of many) massier that happens to make it through the dawns of time is the son of God and that I'll go to heaven for believing in him? There where hundreds of 'massiers' Jesus is just the only on the made it this far. And his stories, and words and blah blah are likely to have been mangled and twisted beyond comprehension over thousands of years of translation.


If I'm as 'sinful' as I'm suppose to be, I'm proud.

We are all children of God. We are his creation. We are the sinners.
Hey God don't you feel guilty about that?
What about your lovely nation? Did you see the cries of these mothers who lost their children, thousands dead children,do you feel guilty about them?
Love is what you came to bring but hate is what you left behind,do you feel guilty about that?
Oh i'm sorry ,i forgat, you are dead.

Quote :

“What about your own salvation? You cannot give what you do not have. A saviour must be saved. How else can he teach salvation?”

Jesus was without sin on earth. tempted like we are yet without sin. but we have sin.

Quote :

SO IF ALL YOU SEE IS OTHER PEOPLE'S SINS, HOW FORGIVING ARE YOU?

everyone is a sinner and needs a saviour. God knows everyone's sins and by beleiving in Jesus you are forgiven... what people think is irrelevant.

Interesting reply. Although it should be noted that you did not respond to the question:

If all you see is sin, how forgiving are you?

Lucas wrote:

Interesting reply. Although it should be noted that you did not respond to the question:

If all you see is sin, how forgiving are you?

well that question implies that some one sees only sins. all i see is everyone is a sinner and needs Jesus.
thats why its important to note that everyone has sinned.
see thats why the talk about the issue of sin, it has enstranged you from God, but Jesus is the way back to God.

How can you say that I am estranged from God? Who gave you such authority to judge such a thing? Do you know the mind of God? Or do you simply know what you have been taught in a single text called the Bible?

Lucas wrote:

How can you say that I am estranged from God? Who gave you such authority to judge such a thing? Do you know the mind of God? Or do you simply know what you have been taught in a single text called the Bible?

yes Lucas, you said your self that you do not believe in God, and Bible tells that (i simply know what i have been reading from the Bible).

Actually I don't recall ever saying I don't believe in God.

Alrighty knowing God is also possible.

The Bible, particulary the Torah is a living, breathing, co-creative set of dialog between our world and the upper forces which govern, written in a language of a past generation. It isn't a history book. It cannot be contained here in this life, with our language but only revealed from the Creator to his creatures who are in the Will to Recieve. We are in Egypt (ego). Cities, events, People are all words used to decribe a secret set of instructions on how to literally transend into other realms of existance. The time has arrived and humanity will increasingly become aware of this.

Between Canaanites, the Sodomites and Gommorah(ites?), Yahweh comes of as a genocidal maniac in the Tanakh.

Narvré wrote:

To begin with I will say that there are to many contradictions to the almighty ten comandments that I find annoying, whether it be before they where brought down from heaven, or after.

Two I think that Laviticus is full of usless laws that are there to do nothing but bind us from the certain normallities of life.
When people say god is going to save us from Hell, the things that god is Hell, as god is suppose to be all. So in essence, to follow what the bible says it's almost like a guy comes up to you and says, "Unless you run through the hall fulled with lacerated objects, I will bown out you brains with this shotgun" so you do it, because you don't want to die, and the once you do it he says "Lucky I saved you from my shotgun huh?"

Also, if god wishes us to become a part of heaven, why did he just not make us worthy? Why do we have to prove our selves to something that is all knowing? And if we're created in his image, then shoyldn't we already be us there?


Some of the basic reasons.

First) Though I dont know you, [I think] that the reason why you see the Ten Commandments as annoying, is due to the simple fact of misunderstanding God, His word, Jesus Christ, the Old and New Testaments, and that you really love sin. You wouldnt want to depart from your lawlessness because its the broad path which everyone takes....and its the easiest. Jesus has given us The way to righteousness, it is the long and narrow path. He never said it would be easy. Then again, you love being "free" and lawlessness. You hate instruction, which prevents you from growing in wisdom.

Second) I have yet to read Leviticus, for I have just recently found The Truth, and spotted out the lies. Which made me realize that God IS real, and I MUST get right with God. But ill let you know when I have read that book.

Third) Your analogy would be relevant, if your beliefs were relevant. We are on an airplane, which is our life. [like you and many others] We are far too focused on whats inside the airplane(which life IS beautiful, and astronomically displays the glory of God) and far too focused on making the trip be "lived to the fullest", for we only live once...right? WRONG! this life is extremely short, compared to what happens after our flesh dies. We are all going to jump out of the plane, its real, and it WILL kill you. There IS going to be judgment. 10 out of 10 people die, you cant help it. Ignoring the FACT of God, doesnt change the reality. you are going to jump out of the plane and die, but God doesnt want that to happen. He DOESNT want us to go to hell. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but be given everlasting life. We have ALL broken God's law. For God is perfect, holy, just, and complete. He WILL give justice rightly. God gave us a parachute.....His son. Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. Now that is the best gift of all, the gift of salvation. That just shows a part of how glorious God is.

Fourth) The Kingdom of Heaven is the Kingdom of God. The earth is His footstool, and was made for His glory, as well as Heaven. We are here to see the glory of God. It is hard for postmodernists to grasp this nowadays but....God is The King, we are but dust to Him. We live from His handiwork, we are His handiwork. We derserve every single piece of punishment from God. We have ALL fallen from Him. Since the beginning, since the Garden of Eden. We are born with the nature to sin, with the intent to break God's laws. The fact that we have are a fallen world, means that we have separated from God. We cant prove ourselves of being worthy of heaven, let alone everlasting life without punishment. By "proving" or doing good deeds in order to go to heaven is but a bribe to the Judge, and bribe to God. For the wage of sin is far too big for us to pay. Beyond what a SINFUL man can pay. Jesus is The Way, The Truth, The Life, and no one goes to the father, but through Him.

I am sorry for your confusion my friend. For I was just like you about 4 months ago. This was all but a fantasy to me. Far too unreal more my beleif. Yet there are things that are beyond reality, beyond what science can answer. I hope that you take a peek outside your destructive box, for the truth IS just behind the walls.

I have question for you. Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

Okay I definitely have to interject here. Although I am certain that Narve is more than capable of responding, I cannot abide such judgments. And this response is to all Christians, not just Dalinian.

Dalinian wrote:

My friend, how can you make such wild assumptions about a person? How can you possibly brand people that they love sin without knowing them? How do you know? How do you know that Narve loves lawlessness? And how could you know that Narve hates instruction? And then you finish by saying Narve is not wise? I am always amazed how Christians are taught "Judge not others, or you shall be judged". And it is Christians who claim to know "The Truth" who cast the first stone. And not just one stone. But hundreds.

Tell me, when Jesus healed the blind did he tell that person he is going to burn in hell for his sin? Or did Jesus extend his compassion and heal him? You see, Jesus loved, he did not judge. Did he not break bread with Tax Collectors and Prostitutes? Did he tell them that they are going to burn? No. He showed them love. The only time Jesus had harsh words for people was to the Pharisees, who were the spiritual leaders of the land, people who knew better and used God to their own ends. Beyond that, Jesus had only compassion for others.

So the next time you see someone that you perceive as a sinner, do not throw them into the fiery pit. Show them some love instead. But then again, if you yourself do not understand love, how can you be expected to show it? If all you can see is sin, how then can you teach love? For this is like fighting war to gain peace, or to repeatedly have sex to gain back your virginity.

I tell you solemnly, so long as you believe in sin you shall never enter the Kingdom.

Dalinian wrote:

We are simply something Jesus rests his feet on? Nothing more than a welcome mat? Do you really have that low of an opinion of others? Of yourself? Of God's entire creation? Has it occured to you that such statements is an excellent way to tell God that you think His very creations are worthless? How do you think God would respond to that? Would he pat you on the back? Or would he ask you not to judge others and simply love them?

Dalinian wrote:
We derserve every single piece of punishment from God.

“Harlots shall be made pure by their own tears. But you shall be held down by the chains of your own judgment.” You see, it is not God who punishes and it certainly not God who teaches punishment. It is us. The only punishment we need to fear is how we punish ourselves and others. Christians love to hold their brothers and sisters in hell, yet they cannot see how they have bound themselves to they very same prison. Remember, the prison keeper is as much a prisoner as the prisoner.

I am amazed, Dalinian, that in as little as 4 months you have made yourself a guru of "The Truth". And that by your own admission, you have not completed reading the entire text, yet you known "The Truth". But don't feel to bad, all Christians go through this phase. The hardest phase is yet to come. Humility.

I would like to end this post with some quotes, some food for thought. I would hope that everyone would read and think deeply upon them for there is much wisdom here.

Okay I definitely have to interject here. Although I am certain that Narve is more than capable of responding, I cannot abide such judgments. And this response is to all Christians, not just Dalinian.

Since this response to all christians and actually it's not a response it's an attack lol......Then I think I should have a say.

How do you know that Narve loves lawlessness? And how could you know that Narve hates instruction? And then you finish by saying Narve is not wise? I am always amazed how Christians are taught "Judge not others, or you shall be judged". And it is Christians who claim to know "The Truth" who cast the first stone. And not just one stone. But hundreds.

Since Navre found that Ten commandments are annoying , That doesn't mean that Christians hate him or judge him for that but Let me tell you that what Dalinian said are not his own words , Look at these verses :

Jesus said "‘If you love me, you will keep* my commandments." John 14:15

"Whoever does not love me does not keep my words; and the word that you hear is not mine, but is from the Father who sent me" John 14:24

And I admit may be some christians judge and even may act like Pharisees but that didn't give you the right to generalize the theory and have the authority
TO JUDGE that ALL CHRISTIANS act like Pharisees !

We are simply something Jesus rests his feet on? Nothing more than a welcome mat? Do you really have that low of an opinion of others? Of yourself? Of God's entire creation? Has it occured to you that such statements is an excellent way to tell God that you think His very creations are worthless? How do you think God would respond to that? Would he pat you on the back? Or would he ask you not to judge others and simply love them?

if we see that God creation is worthless then we don't believe in the bible ,when it says:

"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Genesis 1:27

"God saw all that he had made, and it was very good" Genesis 1:31

But when christians say , we are but dust to him ....we mean that we are nothing without him. As a lover says to whom he loves "I'm nothing without you"...isn't this Love?

Christians love to hold their brothers and sisters in hell, yet they cannot see how they have bound themselves to they very same prison. Remember, the prison keeper is as much a prisoner as the prisoner.

Christians don't love to hold their brothers and sisters in hell.....Apparently it seems as if christians are bounding others when they talk about God punishment but that because many people believe that since god loves them then they can do whatever they want..steal...rape....kill.....some people you need to show them love and others need to advice them....

If christians not really care about those others...they would have left them..as christians themselves won't lose anything. I will give you example some people still think that bible doesn't prohibit Homosexuality and that it's right......If christians didn't talk about God punishment for this...People will Think that homosexuality is accepted by the bible !!.
Sometimes Christians must talk and other time to be quiet !

I would like to end this post with some quotes, some food for thought. I would hope that everyone would read and think deeply upon them for there is much wisdom here.

I say we should Read the Bible and we will find all the wisdom we searching for !. It's complete Book , a perfect one coz it's God's word. Again I will prepare a Topic for all concerning history of Bible soon.
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im not a big fan of the bible but i think that the whole point of jesus was he came to earth to teach people how to live, an example for others to follow. a problem with alot of christians today is that they think the most important thing is to worship jesus and that he is god and the rest of us are insignificant sinners. i think jesus wouldn't care too much whether we worship him or not and would rather care more about us being like him as best we can living life through love and i think we all have the potential to be like him

Matt wrote:

im not a big fan of the bible but i think that the whole point of jesus was he came to earth to teach people how to live, an example for others to follow. a problem with alot of christians today is that they think the most important thing is to worship jesus and that he is god and the rest of us are insignificant sinners. i think jesus wouldn't care too much whether we worship him or not and would rather care more about us being like him as best we can living life through love and i think we all have the potential to be like him

woa, woa there. Jesus did teach RIGHT and imperative things that we ALL should abide by, you are right about that. Yet....what do you think the bible is about? Why do you think its here for us to read, and gain wisdom from? Also, why does it give us tons of events that, to some people, out of reality? The events in the bible are true, and important for us to understand why they happened, and by who. Look at it in this way. God is THE Creator, we are from His hand, as well as everything else. The bible is His words, for us to see, in another, yet historical way. You can read the bible and see that many things happened in the bible, affecting many many people. We can take a look at life, the order, the design, and see how amazing God is. Yet the bible contains even more, and different examples of how glorious God REALLY is. For His glory we are here, for His glory everything has been created into existence, for His glory the bible has been written. Jesus further more shows the infinite glory of God, for THAT is the greatest story ever told. So that we may not perish once our flesh dies. For all have sinned and fallen short before the glory of God. Yet by His hand, He gave US His Son...to save us....? Yes we should follow Jesus' straight and narrow path, but your saying that it wouldnt matter if we worsipped the Lord for which the King has sent? You see that is a problem some people have within themselves. Every day should be thanksgiving. It is like a father purchasing a brand new big screen tv for the family. He comes home after work, and the kids are enjoying the tv, but not thanking the one who bought it. God has given us more than the life we live now, but the gift of eternal life. Once and IF we believe and trust in His Son. We should boast in the cross, for we boast in Jesus and the One who sent Him.

an example for others to follow. a problem with alot of christians today is that they think the most important thing is to worship jesus and that he is god

Mr. Matt , Look at this verse :

Jesus told the Jews: "I and the Father are one.'

Again the Jews picked up stones to kill him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?' "We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God"' (John 10-30-33).

miro that is a great quote "I and the Father are one", i totally agree but what jesus was sayin that all of us and the father are one, i and the father are one you and the father are one, its not just jesus who is one with the father. and about following the bible because it is the words of God, see a problem i have is that the bible wasn't written by Jesus or his followers and it was written after jesus died and it wasn't written on paper when the story was first told people would orally pass it on so this leaves a great chance for distortion and what about all those other gospels that weren't accepted inthe bible. i just beleve that there is alot of distortion in the bible and if jesus was here he would change alot of it

"Even the very least among you can do all that I have done and even greater things."

I agree we all one and that we can do even more than Jesus had done....but don't u see that you are deviating a bit from what we are mainly discussing....you are talking about things like" we are one and we can do things like Jesus does"..all those things are accepted....but what you not want to confess is that JESUS IS GOD and He's not just like any other prophet ...why? COZ HE IS GOD..

Again Jesus asked Jews why u stone me? , Jews replied "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God" ......You know now why he was crusified ? coz they didn't accept him as GOD.
Jesus could have said instead of "I and The father are one"...He could have said " I and the universe are one" or "I and the nature are one"....why didn't he say that? huh?

Stoning him by Jews in this situation means only one thing which is understood by both parties which is " JESUS CLAIMS TO BE GOD"

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i believe jesus is in the same class as buddha and other prophets in other religions and you know that i believe all of us at our deepest core are god, jesus isn't the only one but u believe that jesus is the only one because of what the bible says but what about these other religious text who follow their own prophets how do we know which book is actually the word of god

You gotta love this topic!

I still hold to my belief that wisdom can be gleamed from the Bible and that it is not completely useless. I find it very useful myself. However, it ceases to become useful when it is used to condemn everyone else.

I know Christians believe that the Bible is the only Truth, and that it was written by God. So I will allow you this belief and I hope it helps you on your journey. I would like to clarify something from my last post however (and thanks to Miro for pointing it out). When I referred to “all Christians”, I really did mean “all-Like-Thinking Christians”, the negative ones. Let me be absolutely clear on this, I was not referring to every single solitary Christian - just the ones who have been twisting the meaning of the message for centuries. There are endless Christians who really do get the message of compassion and forgiveness and humility and I exclude them from these words.

With that said, I don’t recommend those Christians who believe in sin and eternal damnation read any further.

Here is some history concerning the beginnings of Christianity and the Bible.


The four main gospels were NOT written by Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. They were written by followers under those names, decades later. The people writing the Gospels were not present during the events of Jesus’ life. The Gospel of Mark was written approximately 70 years after Jesus‘ death. The other 3 Gospels were written later, and all of them used the Gospel of Mark as a template. Some of the material (John) was written up to 130 years after the death of Jesus.

So why does Mathew appear as the first gospel one might ask?

It took a process of 200 years to “decide” which texts would be Canon. After the events of Jesus’ death, each apostle went their separate way teaching the “Good News” as they perceived it. And let us remember that some of the apostles were privy to information that others did not have (for instance, Thomas was the last to see Jesus risen from the dead). Jesus often went out with Peter and a handful of his apostles. They were not always present with Jesus. Even Paul condemns other Christians, saying that other churches that were spreading were misguided. And let us not forget that Paul never met Jesus during his mortal years. It was a period of great strife and debate.

It is also interesting to note that the discovery of the Gospel of Thomas at Nag Hammadi in 1946 conflicts greatly with the four gospels. It has also been discovered that the Gospel of Thomas was written during the same period as the Gospel of John. It is entirely possible that the entire “Doubting Thomas” scene was fabricated to cast a bad light on the Gospel of Thomas and the followers of that text. There were dozens of such gospels found and recently translated. And those are just the ones that weren’t destroyed. (Even I must admit that many of these texts, do not speak to me in any convincing way, but the Gospel of Thomas is very good).


It was a man by the name of Irenaeus that DECIDED which books to include and he did so to consolidate the Christian movement, which had been struggling for over a century because of different opinions and of course the horrendous persecutions. Irenaeus’ decision took place 150 years after the events of Jesus‘ life.

There were groups who ONLY followed the Gospel of Matthew, and it was Irenaeus who decided that they must follow all 4 - the four he decided upon. Now if there was that much strife over the RIGHT Gospels - imagine then, the fights there were over the PROPER interpretation - arguments that continue to this very day.

Once the Four Gospels were made canon, Iraneaus ordered all other texts destroyed. What do you think he did to people who interpreted the existing texts differently than him? Forgive them and sent them on their merry way? I seem to remember a German Dictator who went about burning books.

The gospels were originally composed in Greek rather than being a translation from Aramaic or Hebrew. They were not written in the tongue of Jesus. English translations did not appear until 15 centuries later. As for being written in Greek, Greek mythology is filled with “Virgin Births” and “Resurrections”.

The Four Gospels were chosen through the eyes of fear, and it has been taught using fear. It has been used as a wonderful device to control people. It has also done much good.

I simply do not understand that if God made Heaven and Heaven is perfect - how can any single soul be missing from it? Anything missing from Heaven would be imperfect. Any soul who won’t make it to heaven because of ‘sin’ suggests to me that God is very short-sighted, and is in fact threatened by Satan. My apologies, but the God I believe in is not only secure, but he is not threatened by anything. Not even a fallen angel.

But as I stated in the beginning, I do not present these facts to destroy the Bible, but only to destroy the poor teaching of it. I always thought of Jesus as forgiving and compassionate. Not judgemental. And if I wake up in heaven one day and I find that there are souls missing because of something we call sin, I would gladly give up my seat and offer it to someone condemned to hell. That my friends is compassion.

that is an accurate account of the bible. also constatine had alot of influence over the direction of christianity

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Matt wrote:

how do we know which book is actually the word of god

Now there is a fantastic question. That's the real question, right? Or at least one of them.

I say that we can know what we experience. You may not experience the same things as me, so if I want you to agree with me, you need the same experience, which you may not have. So it is subjective, for all intents and purposes. Reality is of course not subjective, it simply is as it is, but because of our limited ability to perceive we may call it subjective.

Some might argue that because experience is subjective, they cannot say it is proof of anything. This means they are questioning the ability of the senses. Every piece of information obtained by a human being comes through the senses. Those might be the five senses, those might be some other senses that I do not know about, but that isn't relevant. If a person questions the ability of the senses, then how can they know anything? So I say that experience is everything. We know what we can experience.

Most of these religious people have experience, even though their beliefs vary so much. I can't really say that I 'know' much moe than this, so I'm going to leave this as a train of thought for people to follow, and maybe post what they think of this.